Talk:Wind Transfer Release
Uh, this release makes absolutely no sense. Wind and Yin do not make Space-Time. Wind has nothing to do with space-time, as it would say on Narutopedia's Space-time Ninjutsu. I suggest this be corrected, as WInd plus Yin would create a stronger Wind Release, not a Space-Time Release. --'れる' (talk to Joker!) 16:30, November 21, 2010 (UTC) *'EDIT:' Here's the page: Ok, please, that page is ok. Still, first, what is Yin. Well, look at this "can be used to create form out of nothingness." Please, if portal is something, that it can be created from nothin', right (Don't tell me I'm wrong here). Anyways, it doesn't tell what is used to create s-t n, so why wouldn't it be Yin? They are based on the spirituall energy. Please, turn your imagination on a little. :Dude Ive used Space/time ninjutsu and Yin + Wind doesn't equal it.....Yin creates something outta nothing yes...but you cant just mix yin with an element and have it equal space/time ninjutsu, and please sign your post. --[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 16:55, November 21, 2010 (UTC) That is not the point. Space-Time is not a combination of elements, which makes this entire release a jar of bogus. Also, why the heck would it be Wind Transfer? That makes even less sense than your combination. Yin and WInd would not, '''EVER', create Space-Time. I, once again, suggest you change this. --'れる' (talk to Joker!) 16:53, November 21, 2010 (UTC) Your over thinking it Raging Blast, the ability to create a "portal" as you say isn't creating something from nothing (which your technique doesn't even do). A Space-Time Ninjutsu is described as "manipulating a specific point of space, the user can warp anything targeted into a dimensional void, and teleport it to another location near instantaneously." While your technique does this, it is no different then a Wind Release technique not an Advanced nature. : This doesn't seem much like a Release as well, as an example of an advanced nature would be a mixture of Fire+Earth which would make Lava. Release of Natures are often associated with nature/elements. --I am the Fallen Death Sentence 16:58, November 21, 2010 (UTC) Problems arise when you only explain the effect of a technique. Explaining the how and why of this particular release would clear up a lot of things. But most users, not even admins bother with explaining the mechanics behind the actual techniques, so there really isnt a reference for anyone to use. But I do agree that wind + yin wouldnt create spacetime jutsu, given that its already a category of techniques in of itself. However if you tried to explain how your characters spacetime techniques worked via a combination of wind + yin then that would be more acceptable. The presentation of an idea is just as important as the content. --- Illuminate Void 17:11, November 21, 2010 (UTC) I guess I need to explain it. Actually, It's not only Wind-Yin which creates the release, It's kinda supported by the laws of physics (XD, not actually) I'll do it. :That is not a law of physics; I know physics like the back of my hand. Also, unless your explaination is the most detailed explaination in the world, Wind + Yin will never be sufficient. I suggest starting on that and not finishing for several years. --'れる' (talk to Joker!) 17:26, November 21, 2010 (UTC) ::My explanation: he just creates all the aspects of Space/Time jutsu with Yin release and the wind is just for a coolng breeze whilst doing this! (-Kai logic-) Kai - Talk 17:30, November 21, 2010 (UTC) :: ::@Joker ::Yes, I know physics as well, and I'll use one of theories in physics to prove it. ::@Kai ::Kinda right, wind is not the aspect that makes this possible. xD, you're actually the first to said something neutral about this xD Alright Now, stop it. Why is it that wall of texts formed everytime people are annoyed? If someone complains, everybody else GTFO. We don't need a goddamn gang-bang everytime someone makes something you lot don't like. Now then, Kou, you must not know the back of your hand that well, because Wind + Yin can form some variety of space-time. Yin release involves bringing forth imagination into reality, which means it can cause the wind to accelerate in a given space at speeds that would be considered impossible. When time reaches a certain max, hence "light speed", space is influenced and ripped. However, since wind naturally cuts, it wouldn't take till light speed. Once wind becomes fast enough to reach the fourth dimension (according to the string theory), it should be able to cut through and actually make a rip in space. So, this is possible, however, I do not much like Raging Blast's description on how it works. Point I would like to make is, if you wanna make something that defies the laws of physics (such as space-time varieties), then contact someone who actually knows how physics works, like myself or Crim, or even Haruko. Anyways, all of you, lay off. If, say Kou, mentions something first, I don't wanna see Kai, King, and... even goddamn Illuminate Void? Seriously? If one person says something, let them handle it. Stop gang-banging people. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 17:53, November 21, 2010 (UTC) : wasn't complaining... Just being an idiot (: Kai - Talk 17:56, November 21, 2010 (UTC) * Pfft, I simply said it didn't seem like a Advanced Nature to me. You also say we were "gang-banging", you make it seem like we all planned to target him and say something to him. I had no idea they were posting, and they posted while I was writing. --I am the Fallen Death Sentence 17:58, November 21, 2010 (UTC) :I could care less for intentions. People feel discouraged when cornered, and this is only the first step to making new users leave NF. Now, believe me, there are many new generation people I want to have them leave, but that goes against the code of an admin. Kou is, as per the vote, one of the two Bureaucrats. If he isn't online, then another admin should enter. We need better forms of communication amongst the admins. We can't all jump into talk pages and corner someone, which we've done almost everytime someone writes something we have a different opinion of. Kou was the first to make a mention, so until Raging Blast replies, and depending on Kou's decision on how to approach it, everybody else should resist the temptation to jump in. If we continue like this, we're gonna eventually form a mob of users against everything we dislike. I understand everybody is entitled to make their opinion known, but still, it's not like we need to comment on everything. Seriously people. :Now, as I stated before, Wind + Yin = Some form of Space-Time, is possible. But, I dislike Raging Blast's way of explaining it. Raging Blast, refer to what I stated above, and rewrite the article's description. Then, I will approve it, and it will pend approval from Kou. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 18:17, November 21, 2010 (UTC) Using physics to support techniques can be pretty tricky. Given that chakra is a wholly fictional concept, that by its very nature within the series defies the laws of physics you have to be careful with how you do it. However you CAN use science to help explain the effects of a technique and how its affecting the various forces, elements, etc in the world around you, and providing a reasonable and probable explanation. Technically a very skilled shinobi with the lightning affinity could create his own Railgun, and be considered the king of sniping. Better yet, get a team of jounin level, lightning affinity shinobi and you've got the Railgun cannon, firing boulders at several times the speed of sound. Science + chakra = very scare results. --- Illuminate Void 18:18, November 21, 2010 (UTC) @Seireitou Wow, you really cleared the things up, actually, that was a kind of what I wanted to write into description (Kind of) I'll give you a quick look over how does WTR work. We all know that Yin is actually spiritual power, so what if we use it to enchance wind at that speed that it even ripps the space. Of course, it isn't really so simple. I said that a person needs concentration to do this, rait? Well, this kinda works on concentrating so much energy into a single spot, which, if strong enough, can make a hole. Here, wind helps, 'cause wind cuts. And space can be formed like anything other, right, it is shapefull and a 3-dimensional thing, so why can't it be cut? Anyways, thank you for huge help 'bout gang-banging people. I find that here things work like that. "Hey, we found something that doesn't fit! Let's make his talk page a gang-banging place!". Even if is not like that, it really works like this. @Kai You actually only said something that wasn't offensive. @The Fallen It actually isn't Advanced Nature, wind is just used in this because it helps to make this possible.<<-Raging Blast->> 18:07, November 21, 2010 (UTC) "I am the v :That is slightly incorrect. Spiritual power can be seen as energy, and let physical energy be mass. Mass cannot be energy unless it travels at the speed of light, and even then, requires the energy of a hundred atomic bombs to actually become energy. Spiritual energy cannot influence mass, and therefore, in order for how you stated to me how it works, means you would need to transform the entire surrounding area into energy, effectively eliminating the world. Now, what I''' was trying to state, was that yin chakra merely is the catalyst, and wind itself is brought to the speed required to cut space. Remember Sasuke learning Chidori? The physical activation? The chakra's speed was brought to the point where it became visible. Does that mean Sasuke was moving at the speed of light? No. So, speed only jump started the chakra, but didn't play any direct role. Secondly, space is not limited to third-dimension. According to the string theory, space can reach up to 11 dimensions. But time is restricted to the fourth dimension. If you want to form space-time manipulations, the fourth dimension is the key. And lastly, yeah, I agree. Gang-banging seems to happen alot. Anyways, use my way of approaching this, and write a new description. Have a good day. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 18:17, November 21, 2010 (UTC) : :Well, again, I never said anything about mass right? If I wanted for Dijata to travel like mass in space, I couldn't actually do it. Traveling at the speed of light makes infinity mass, which is not possible. That's why a person needs to convert himself into energy before using this. Again, while converting into energy (chakra in this case), travelling it happens of tiny scales because user concentrates energy into a single single spot which is..well...a spot! Now, if you see something wrong here, please tell me, I'm open to change the theory. <<-Raging Blast->> 18:31, November 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Since Sei isn't on right now, I'll answer for him; Speed of light is a measure of time, not actual speed, so that;s out of the equation. It isn't possible to convert yourself into chakra, unless someone else can show me roff of it working, which means that you must have mass. Also, chakra has mass anyways, so that theory is out. I'd change it to something along the lines of Dijata being able to move by cutting through the space, which would allow a portal. Then he'd, obviously, enter the portal and appear where he wants. However, there must be some type of drawback, as this is a very powerful technique. --'''れる (talk to Joker!) 18:44, November 21, 2010 (UTC) I think of a chakra as a no-mass thing which can have mass under certain conditions (E.g. Shadow Clones). Anyways, there is a huge drawback about this, the amount of chakra used. Dijata actually will only be able to use at least decent techniques in shippuden part of The Forgotten. <<-Raging Blast->> 18:55, November 21, 2010 (UTC) On the note of moving at the speed of light, the easiest solution would be to reduce your overall wind resistance, something easily doable with the Wind Release. By removing it almost completely, you've basically created you're own vacuum. You would either have to create a "field" around you or a "path" that you travel through. Both would allow you to move at insane speeds. Of course you would also need another wind technique to protect yourself in a vacuum because the lack of air pressure would instantly kill you. Come to think of it, that could also be a high level offensive technique. Anyway this would allow you to approach the speed of light. But the problem with doing so is that the faster you move the more matter that you hit as a result. Wind Release could completely remove this restriction, allowing you to move at FTL speeds. But I wouldnt recommend it. You're body would be traveling at such speeds you're just as likely to launch yourself into orbit, as you are to crash into a solid object. Dead either way. Not to mention the chakra cost of the technique itself. At the very least, you would need Bijuu levels of chakra to pull something like that off. However you could tone it down and instead possess an insane speed enhancement technique as well as a deadly offensive wind technique. Like I said before, if you explain the mechanics of HOW the techniques work, more often than you not, you can easily derive other jutsu from the same basic principles. --- Illuminate Void 19:24, November 21, 2010 (UTC) Sorry to butt in but Kou I think you are mistaking Speed of light with something else. Speed of light is a measure of speed. It is literally the speed of light, "3*108m/sec". The only other similar thing I can think of right now is Light years, a measure of distance. Cheers! --Jet'ika (Talk | ) 19:37, November 21, 2010 (UTC) :Thanks Jet'ika. Now, Sei asked that everyone stay out of this. I, for obvious reasons, cannot force you to stop posting here, but since the matter is finished, there is no need for any more discussion. Please, no more posts. It is done and over with. --'れる' (talk to Joker!) No one said that this is forbade to comment on. Anyways, I'll soon write the full explanation of wind transfer. <<-Raging Blast->> 19:56, November 21, 2010 (UTC) Added the theory Ok, guys. I've wrote the theory of WTR. Hope you are happy now:) ! <<-Raging Blast->> 21:23, November 21, 2010 (UTC) ... Alright... you people don't seem to get the whole "stop gang-banging." Especially you, Void. I told Kou to speak in my place, but why the hell do you continue to persist? Anyways, that isn't my concern right now. You seem to be mistaking wind "chakra" for actually wind. Wind chakra does not hold dominion over the nature itself, so I don't see why you are connecting the two. So, your entire statement that follows is moot from there. And Jet, you are correct about the speed of light, but please do not continue posting here, as I have tried to make it clear that people should butt out more often. Some more than others. Now, Raging Blast, chakra cannot become mass. Otherwise, you would need to use the energy of a hundred nuclear bombs in order to make a single shadow clone. We are to assume physical energy provides the mass influence, which allows chakra to make a smooth transition into mass forms. And, besides that, the person using the technique is made of mass, so even if chakra was 100% energy, it would still need you to make yourself into energy. I provided a clear explanation of how it should work, so we'll leave it at that. And if anyone, from now besides Blast, posts on this talk page for this same issue, I will ban you for a week. That is my warning. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 22:33, November 21, 2010 (UTC) Gang-banging would refer to insulting the author and doing nothing more than calling their ideas dumbs, or "they need to be changed." I offered advice, and other ways to explain how this author could get the desired effect they want. Nothing more. Furthermore, elemental chakra in this case "Wind Chakra" is used to exert, influence or create things in the environment in this case by the manipulating the air particles. And as I recall, yes, the elemental chakra's do allow you to manipulate aspects of nature itself ie Earth Release. It specifically states that chakra is used to manipulate the surrounding the earth. The same can be said for any of the elements. So yeah, my "entire statement" still stands true since you are manipulating the air using Wind Chakra. And I'll agree its impossible for chakra to become mass, but....at the very least it can exhibit properties normally associated with mass by taking on the characteristics of objects possessing considerable mass through Earth Chakra manipulation. Chakra can be used to emulate virtually any known effect within our understanding, and thats why it is power absolute in the world of Naruto. And yes, I ignored you're "warning" to be banned. I find your reasoning to be completely baseless, and a little bit childish. So I'm going to chalk it up to you just having a bad day. But you really...shouldnt threaten to ban users like that, even if you're mad. You dont want to come off as tyrannical, it reflects poorly on the kind of person you are and those associated with you. So to be fair I won't comment on this talk page after I finish this and if you have any issue's with me, please feel free to leave a messages on my talk page. --- Illuminate Void 06:22, November 22, 2010 (UTC) I don't really care, Void. When an Admin's word is not respected or followed, that shows a lack of loyalty and respect to the administration. I will keep true to my word, and ban you for a week for continuing to speak for this same issue when I clearly said to drop it, or it would result in a one-week ban. It can come off as tyrannical as you want to interpret it as, but I see this as complete and utter disregard for admin warnings. My reasoning was fine. I specifically stated that people should butt out, and plus, even if I didn't, most of your statements were general things that didn't need to be stated here. More like you stated it just to seem intelligent. Yet, you decided to completely disregard it and speak about the same topic anyways. Do not misunderstand, we are not a democracy here, alright? And don't think it is. If an admin's word is not respected, then there are no leaders, and everything will crumble. I hate to quote Bleach, but Admins are the "lynchpin" of the Wikia they administer, and when they are not followed, then the Wikia (or in real life terms, a society) will crumble and become mere fodder. Now, in Naruto terms, you are also incorrect. While certain elements do require pre-existing elements nearby, such as water and earth, such elements like fire and wind are formed by converting one's chakra into its elemental form, hence nature transformation. If I may, in Avatar, fire-bending is different from the other four because it comes from inside the firebender, and doesn't involve bending pre-existing material, such as earth-benders need earth. Besides, you just contradicted yourself. "Furthermore, elemental chakra in this case "Wind Chakra" is used to exert, influence or '''create things'..."'' is your own statement above. How do you create things? By magic? Perhaps Santa brings it along? No. Because chakra forms it via nature manipulation, meaning whether there is pre-existing wind or not doesn't mean anything. The Naruto world could be frictionless, and wind chakra wouldn't lessen its ability whatsoever. This will be my last statement, and anybody who decides to also go against my warning like our friend Void here, they will also join in for a one-week ban from NF. I will not tolerate this anymore, and Ten also stated this a while ago. Admins are to be respected and followed. Whether you agree or not with them, it doesn't matter, they lead this Wikia, and if you don't like it, leave. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 19:46, November 22, 2010 (UTC) On a....brighter note <_< Your translation is a little off. It is really (風移送遁, Fūisōton; Literally, "Wind Transfer Release"). I won't get on to you for the actual content on here, since 1) you seem to be at least trying to be creative, something we need, and 2) it seems that everyone else here has already blown up on you, hence you don't need anymore baggage *glares at everyone else* May I suggest, however, that you pick a different name? Wind Transfer Release isn't part of the conventional naming schemes for releases. Something to the effect of Warp Release, Jet Release (jet referring to the wind side of it), etc. This also makes translations sound better. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 22:58, November 21, 2010 (UTC) : And another thing; You all should be ashamed about how worked up you're getting. We need creativity here and in case anyone hasn't noticed, Naruto breaks the laws of physics every chapter. No need to go off on people who also broke it. Seriously, we all need to chill out and look at a few things here. Firstly, can we all not give reasonable advice without sounding overly critical? And another thing, surely more than one person can post their opinion on a topic. I mean, you don't see people defending Aha when the same thing happens to him. Have a little bit of common sense here people and relax a little. Seriously, this is a fan made website, not the Pentagon, there is no need to get so worked up. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 23:09, November 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Ten, I hate to break what you're getting at, but I wanted to ask... where do you get your translations? --'れる' (talk to Joker!) 21:32, November 22, 2010 (UTC) ::: http://www.nihongodict.com/ ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 23:17, November 22, 2010 (UTC) :::: Ah, then nevermind. --'れる' (talk to Joker!) 23:28, November 22, 2010 (UTC) Ok, I understand anything. I am going to change this with another release which I hope will not have so much negative comments. <<-Raging Blast->> 17:14, November 23, 2010 (UTC)